In March, we published a story about the debate between a developer and local group over a proposal for 902 Foul Bay. After working with the city, the developer has released their revised proposal.
In March, we published a story about the debate between a developer and local group over a proposal for 902 Foul Bay. After working with the city, the developer has released their revised proposal.
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Disclaimer: This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Jackie: My name is Jackie Lamport. Today is Thursday August 19th. Welcome to the Capital Daily Podcast. Today on the show:
Melanie: “I think it's just finding that middle road for everyone where we may not all be able to get exactly what we want and there's compromise. Perhaps that group feels like we haven't compromised enough for them.”
Jackie: The hotly debated development proposal at 902 Foul Bay Road has been revised by developers after hearing back from the city. Today, we find out what those revisions are, the state of the relationships with those who are protesting, and what happens next.
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Back in March Capital Daily reporter Emily Fagan joined us to walk us through a story she had written for our website. It was about the development proposal at 902 Foul Bay Road. The property had once been the site of a heritage home that burned to the ground in 2016. Now what remains is a rock wall, and around 25 trees on an empty lot. A few years later the property came into the possession of Aryze Developments.
They had submitted a proposal for multiple townhouse units on the property that they advertise as family friendly affordable units. Something that would be a change to the largely single family home properties in the area. But current residents of the area raised concerns and started a group to protest against the development coming to fruition. Among their concerns was the loss of the trees, the historic rock wall, densification of the area, and the possibility of an increase in traffic on the road.
If you live in the area you may have noticed some “Save the trees at 902 foul bay”. If you didn’t before, you can understand the context now. But also, if you live in the area, it's likely that you've heard about the issue because the debate has been so heated.
The tension between the developers and the protesting residents was intense, Emily Fagan spoke to both sides and wrote a piece which covered everything from the trees, an historic covenant, the real world manifestations of the online drama, and a lot more. It's a super interesting read and I highly recommend checking it out at Capital Daily.ca.
Today’s episode serves as an update to that story.
The developers, Aryze, have made revisions to their original development proposal to meet the city’s recommendations. Today we learn about what those revisions are, how relationships with residents have changed, and what happens next. To do that, we speak to Melanie Ransome, the Marketing & Communications Manager at Aryze Developments.
Melanie, welcome to the show.
Melanie: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Jackie: Let's just start with a general overview of what is different in the revisions from the previous plan.
Melanie: Yeah, there isn't a whole ton changed in the plan, I think we've just been really working through with the city to try and resolve some of their requests there. So I mean, the main differences that you'll see is that we've added some ground floor entrances along Foul Bay Road just to make it feel more friendly at grade there for people as they're walking along the sidewalk. And then we've also reduced one of the entrances that we were going to have on the historic rock retaining wall on Quamichon St. And so now it's just going to be only one entrance through there. So we're just reducing the number of different access points that we're adding through there.
So that those have been the two key changes that we've made with the city alongside some of the comments around trying to maintain as many trees as possible, which, of course, we're trying to do at all costs as well, in working with the arborist and just following their recommendations there in terms of the existing tree health, the trees that we can maintain when looking at the critical root zones and what we really need to be doing with the project, and then also what we're able to add in after the fact with some new foliage and plants and whatnot.
Jackie: Early on there were a lot of concerns about the amount of trees that were going to be destroyed. What revisions Have you made there?
Melanie: Yeah, so we are retaining 12 trees. And so that's as many as we can, as per the arborist again. They were assessing the trees on the site and many of them were actually in pretty, pretty low condition and so they were on their way to dying, actually. And so we, you know, are retaining as many as we can on the site as per what we can with the project plans. But yeah, we're going to be retaining three and adding adding lots of new trees through the project as well.
Jackie: What would you say some of the biggest changes are?
Melanie: The biggest changes relate to the pricing around the project. We had an original vision with this project to be offering diverse housing for diverse incomes, that was always our vision for the project at 902 Foul Bay, and I think something that was pretty progressive for this type of project and something that we had a really strong vision for, and we wanted to be able to provide. I think, from the very beginning, we saw the need for that from the community, I mean, the stack of letters that we have from families who are practically begging for the opportunity to hopefully live in a home like what we're offering at 902 Foul Bay, because, you know, they're either currently renting in the neighborhood of Fairfield Gonzales, and they've built their life here, but they can't find a way to get into the market. So that was always the vision that we had with this project.
The original plan was to offer all units, so all 18 units below market rate. Unfortunately, just due to the length of approval timelines, the number of off site improvements with the city, and, you know, increases in construction costs as well, we did have to rethink our approach a few months ago. And so that's where now there's going to be two three-bedrooms offered below market rate and two one-bedrooms offered below market rate. While we're not able to offer as many below market rate homes as we were able to are hoping to before, fundamentally, we're still really looking to just add density to a neighborhood that can handle it, and still being able to offer some below market rate homes in a neighborhood that I think could really use some new families in the space.
Jackie: That's interesting. Okay. Because one of the arguments that was coming from people who are opposed to the project was that it wasn't affordable. Even at $700,000, which was about $200,000 or so below market value. What would you say to that? Considering that it hasn't come down at all?
Melanie: The two three-bedrooms that we are offering below market rate, we're actually looking to get those in at 640,000. We haven't been able to offer that same price point that we were planning to, for the project as a whole, we're still really trying to push the boundaries on what's possible in terms of showing a pathway for people who don't see themselves reflected in the current market.
So, yes, maybe some people thought $700,000 wasn't attainable. But I also know a lot of people that did really find that attainable. So I think it's, we all need to kind of keep that in consideration when thinking about defining those terms. It's not any one person's individual perspective to just impose on someone else. I certainly know a lot of people that are being forced now to look, they want to live in Victoria, and maybe even in Fairfield and Gonzales, and they're being forced to look elsewhere, for even higher price points than $700,000. So I don't really think that in and of itself is a fair assessment to make and that everyone has kind of their own means and their own budgets that they're working within.
So, we aren't able to offer it across the board anymore. But even at that, offering those two, three-bedroom homes at $640,000, that's really what we're still pushing towards and wanting to offer some affordable options. And then the two one-bedrooms at $360,000. I mean, I think for the neighborhood of Fairfield, Gonzales, that that is affordable. Look anywhere else in the market, you're not gonna find anything comparable to that. And you know, at the end of the day, it really just is about increasing the number of homes that are available for people to purchase and get into the market, like we just don't have enough supply. So I don't really think that's a fair statement to have in response, to be opposing what someone else could be calling their home.
Jackie: What was the original goal of the project? Was it to create affordable housing options? Or was it to densify areas in Victoria that are typically single family homes on large properties? What was the original goal?
Melanie: I think both of those comments are the original goal. I mean, yes, offering diverse housing for diverse incomes. You know, when thinking about the housing continuum, you need to have options so that people can choose to move along as they wish, and they may not want to just go from left to right. People may want to dip in one place and dip out and start with renting, and so building more purpose built renting housing in the community is important but equally important is building you know, multi family homes.
And so again, it's like you need to have options for people to make those decisions autonomously for themselves. For a neighborhood to just decide for any one individual what is appropriate for them, that's just not a reality. You need to give people space to decide what works for them and their family. So yeah, diverse housing for diverse incomes was always a goal, but with hand in hand, and that is adding density.
And, you know, thinking about the 15 minute city concept and neighborhoods that have room to grow, Fairfield Gonzales is one of those neighborhoods. It's predominantly single family homes. But this is a lot, that we feel like in a sensitive way, we can add more density to that space. And there's schools, there's grocery stores, there's restaurants all nearby. It's a space that I think could really benefit from some new families living in and enjoying the space just like all the other neighbors do.
Jackie: By the sounds of it, there haven't been a lot of changes that were specific to what the folks who were opposed to the project wanted. And I do remember there being a lot of tension between some of the local groups. Has Aryze made any new attempts to actually break down those barriers between your company and the neighbors who are feeling a little bit hesitant about the property?
Melanie: Yeah, certainly. I mean, I can appreciate that. The tensions have certainly built on that, and it's so hard when people don't feel like they're being heard. At the same time, we're just really trying to help amplify the voices of those who really want to live in these homes. So you know, I totally appreciate the sentiments from the folks who are living in the community and feeling like their voices aren't being reflected. But I also think it's the voices of those who just are looking for a place to call home.
Right now, really, our focus on the project is advocating for those voices, making sure that they have a space to be heard. And really, that is offering housing in a space that doesn't really have a ton and people who are living like, again, we have these piles of letters of people really articulating their situation for their personal family where their kids are going to the school, they've been renting for years, it's a family of five living in a two bedroom unit that they've been renting, and they want to have the opportunity to go out on their own and own their own home.
So our focus has really been just continuing to advocate for those who, rightly so, want to have a bit more space for themselves and their family in a neighborhood that they've been contributing to and living in for years.
Jackie: Have there been any conversations with any of the folks in the neighbourhood?
Melanie: Yeah, Imean, since the beginning of the project, we've kept the neighbors up to date in a number of ways, including direct mailers with postcards like we do with all of our other developments that we're proposing. But we've also sent out a series of letters to neighbours to engage them through various stages of the project. We have another set of letters that's going to be going out in the next few weeks here just to keep neighbours as informed as possible and hopefully bridging that communication a little bit more. But anyone that has responded or has reached out, we continue to engage with them and answer any of the questions that they may have. So I welcome anyone who, if there are any outstanding questions, or if you have any questions about what we've spoken about today, on the podcast, please, please reach out community@aryze.ca. We'd love to hear from you and talk through any questions or comments that you might have.
Jackie: Another interesting part of this process was the historic covenant that was written into the deed for the property. And I just want to remind listeners that said,
“No building is to be erected upon any other lot than a private dwelling house with suitable outbuildings…”
And then it goes on. There's some price ranges, which are incredibly outdated. But last we checked in Aryze was petitioning the BC Supreme Court to remove that covenant. How has that gone?
Melanie: We don't have any major updates to share at this time. The courts are slow, and we're just on our way going through the city process. So nothing to share at this time. But you know, hopefully, we can join you again here when we have more to share. I think for us at Aryze that covenant to us doesn't really speak to modern society. And so we look at that as an opportunity to really just push forward to a new future that I think more citizens see as an opportunity to realize here,
Jackie: What do you expect to happen next with the development? What are the next steps?
Melanie: Yeah, so I mean, so next steps, we received comments from the city on our application and, you know, a few design comments, which I referenced there around entry points off of Foul Bay, you know, less interaction with that retaining wall, the historic retaining wall that's there. We've also added some entrances there-sorry, we've reduced the number of entrances on Redferns St. to maintain the critical root zones and minimize the impact of the trees that are there.
So that's been the initial stuff is just like responding to those design comments from the city, which we've incorporated. And we're feeling really good. There's been some progress there. So we're just waiting for them to respond to the application. And we're feeling hopeful based on everything that we've incorporated, that we'll get support from city planning staff, and, you know, hoping that we can take the project to Council for committee of the whole into the fall. And if all goes according to plan, then we'd be looking to go to public hearing in Spring 2022.
So, I mean, in terms of next steps, I think I just continue to encourage people that if you feel similarly that you want to see more housing options in neighborhoods, like Fairfield Gonzales, or you see yourself reflected in what we're trying to achieve with the project at 902 Foul Bay, please talk to city council, write in and write a letter, you know, and when we get to public hearing the opportunity to speak to council as well and share your story. Because I think there's a lot of voices in the mix and being shared, and those are all valid perspectives and valued to the process. But I also think it's important that people take the moment to stand up and tell their own personal story about maybe where they don't feel like they're being seen or reflected in the current situation.
Jackie: Do you expect any more concerns to be brought forth from the group that has been very openly advocating against the development?
Melanie: I think the group that has opposed the project, they feel strongly about the stance that they have, and I get it, and that change is really hard, especially when you're used to your neighbourhood, being and feeling a certain way, it's, it's hard to imagine how it could be different. I hope there are maybe some members of that group that can empathize with the reality that a lot of the younger generation, not even necessarily that young of a generation, like people with families are just really struggling to find adequate housing for their needs. And so I think it's just finding that middle road for everyone where, you know, we may not all be able to get exactly what we want, and there's compromise. Perhaps that group feels like we haven't compromised enough for them. But again, I just, I think there's a lot of other folks in the city who feel like they don't see themselves represented in what's available right now, especially when it just comes to such an essential rate of housing. I hope maybe there are some folks that can maybe see where that group might be coming from as well.
Jackie: Thank you so much.
Melanie: Yeah, thank you.
Jackie: And again, if you want to read back to the beginning of the story, the story was originally posted to CapitalDaily.ca in March. Or, again, you can listen to it in podcast form where we had Emily Fagan break down the entire story.
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Thanks so much for joining us today. If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave a rating and review and also subscribe so that you don't miss any episodes going forward. We post new shows every Monday to Friday. My name is Jackie Lamport. This is the Capital Daily Podcast. We'll talk to you tomorrow.