A motion from Mayor Lisa Helps and Councillors Marianne Alto Charlayne Thornton-Joe would place a prohibition on camping in Beacon Hill park for two years while the environment recovers from 24/7 sheltering. We speak to Councillor Thornton-Joe to find out more.
A motion from Mayor Lisa Helps and Councillors Marianne Alto Charlayne Thornton-Joe would place a prohibition on camping in Beacon Hill park for two years while the environment recovers from 24/7 sheltering. We speak to Councillor Thornton-Joe to find out more. Â
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Disclaimer: This interview has been edited for clarity and length.Â
Jackie: My name is Jackie Lamport. Today is Monday, May 31st. Welcome to the Capital Daily Podcast. A motion is being proposed by two councillors, and Victoria Mayor Lisa Helps that would ban camping in Beacon Hill Park for two years to help the habitat rebounds from 24/7 sheltering. Today we speak to one of those councillors, Councillor Charlayne Thornton-Joe, to learn more. Counsellor, welcome to the show.Â
Charlayne: Thank you for having me.Â
Jackie: Can you first give me a brief overview of the proposal?Â
Charlayne: The motion was put forward by the mayor. And after reading the proposal, counsellor Altos and I came forward to second the motion. And, of course, that would get it to the table for debate. On Thursday, we’ll see whether it is supported and what the request is or what the motion is. It’s quite a long discussion, and we went through the history of what's been going on for the last year since COVID. Homelessness, as a topic and some of the solutions, and really focusing on Beacon Hill Park and some of the concerns and issues that have arisen through the years, but especially during COVID. And so the motion is basically, now that the campers, the majority, we had at one point 110. So we're down to about seven. And so the motion is to ask that Beacon Hill be added to the no camping areas for at least two years and perhaps even longer. After those two years, it will be reviewed. And basically, that's just to give some time. Some of the damage that was done on the part that the staff can go in and remediate. Let the grass grow back and some of the areas where the tents compressed the areas, some of the wildlife that may have disappeared during that time can return and other questions such as getting the staff to look at parks and whether there have been some lessons learned. After that, the two years may be extended that may not, or other parks may be added to the no camping bylaw. So it's quite a big report. And I'm sure there'll be a lot of dialogue Thursday regarding the pros and cons.
Jackie: Was this something that you or council had thought may come to be after the 24 seven sheltering was over?Â
Charlayne: There have been other parks that have been supported to make no camping, and I think part of it is whether there are amenities like washrooms in nearby proximity to neighbours. So there have been some that have been added through the years. There are still some parks that I'd like to see added, such as Irving Park and many others and neighbourhoods. But Beacon Hill Park is a regional and neighbourhood park, and it's a well-known tourist destination. And I think we have to remember that none of us want people living in our parks when none of us want homelessness to exist. And of course, the larger solution to the problem is some housing support for individuals. And something that I really would like to see is some kind of facility for those with complex care. So people with extreme mental health and addiction issues. We needed this for quite a while, and we're seeing that the government has come forward with more housing and more shelters. But, of course, shelters are not a substitute for housing, but maybe a stepping s and as the care people need.
Jackie: Do you think it's realistic to expect that people won't continue to shelter in parks? Do we have the resources right now for the people who may need some more to stay?
Charlayne: Recently, BC Housing has come forward with housing, and everyone that has been in parks has been identified and have been offered housing or shelter. And there are those that have said, “No,” they don't want to and remain in parks. But that is not something we support. So our job is to make sure that we work with our partners to offer an alternative to parks. And if they still choose to be in parks, for the ones that were camping is allowed, we are going to be enforcing that people need to move on in the morning and take down their tents, and use some of the other services, whether it's meals or washrooms or showers, or some of the facilities. And there are some parks that will become no camping at all. And we'd like to add Beacon Hill Park, at least for the next two years. But, mainly, it's so that we can look at what needs to be done and remediated to bring it back to its glory that most people know.Â
Jackie: I know that BC Housing had that large project of getting everybody out of the parks and into shelters. It was pretty successful, which is great, but we can't necessarily expect that people aren't going to continue to become without shelter. Is that something that's taken into account?
Charlayne: When we talk about ending homelessness, we recognize that there will always be reasons why people become homeless, whether it is mental health issues, breakdowns or addictions or evictions, because of losing your job. So we talk about this functional zero, which means that if anyone becomes homeless, there are services available, so shelters would not be so full that you are turned away. Shelters should be just there for an emergency to help you get or direct you to the service that you need. So that you can seek housing or seek some kind of support. But right now, our shelters are full. People are turned away, and people have been in shelters for numerous years. So that's what we want to end, and when we say end homelessness, we recognize there will always be people coming in and out of homeless. So a lot of the work has to be also prevention. Whether it is youth that are coming into homelessness, we need to do some of that work. For example, we also need to work with our Aboriginal partners because we know that over 30 to 35% of those experiencing homelessness are Indigenous, even though they only represent, I think, 4 to 5% of our total population. We have to look at whether it's systemic racism, whether it's fetal alcohol disorder, whether it is things from the past, whether it's residential schools. Much of the atrocious history of the past that may have led our Indigenous population to exceed the percentage of homelessness.
Jackie: You mentioned centres with complex care for those who need it. Is this already in place that we have the infrastructure, or have the system set up already?
Charlayne: Not currently. And of course, nobody wants to go back to the facilities of the past. I don't think any of us think or believe that. They were done in a way that we think we would want our family members to be in. But, there are new ways of doing and supporting people with mental illness and addiction and fetal alcohol disorder. So we need a new type of facility. And I know that the government and all the mayors have reached out to the government saying this is needed. And so we know that work is being done and we hope to see it in the very near future. I hope it will be done in the next six months. Now, I know that many aspects of it still need to be worked out. But I think everyone agrees that this is needed, and hopefully, it'll be coming on board soon. Because it's not only about housing people, it’s being able to keep people housed and positive for themselves and positive for their neighbours. By having complex care, it could also prevent; I’ve done some of the prevention work to keep people from becoming homeless and becoming addicted.Â
Jackie: I know that an injunction is something that is also being considered as an option to make sure that the prohibition is followed. How serious has this discussion been, and what would actually lead to it?
Charlayne: Well, the injunction is an option for the city, for those who don't want to comply with any of the directions or bylaws. So, right now, when we were clearing out the parks and getting people into housing and shelters, anyone that is refusing even though they are offered housing to move. So that is an option that we could use. But at this point, there's been good dialogue between staff, outreach workers, with individuals and trying to see what their needs are, and making it very clear that in any of the parks the 7 PM to 7 AM, that cars and trailers and vans will not be permitted to overnighting in Beacon Hill Park. So the injunction option is there for us, but we haven't had to use it at this point.
Jackie: Is it something that would be maybe a last resort, just given that it would create some legal issues for people who already have a lot going on?
Charlayne: It’d be unfortunate if we would have to use an injunction. It's a last resort. And of course, it is working with people first, and when you feel that there is no other option, that's when it’s used. We recognize that there was a need for relationship building, a need for conversation, and seeing where each person's at. When you say homeless individuals, it's not a group where one size fits all. And so it is working with each individual to see what they need. And at some point, it probably is in the very near future that if all options are discussed, and some individuals still refuse to comply, then a judge may be used. Of course, if the 24-hour camping or 7 PM to 7 AM camping is removed from Beacon Hill for the next two years, and people still don't comply, that may be something that needs to be [inaudible]. And I understand that you say these are individuals that also may be having some challenges or hardships. But once again, some individuals have been offered housing and have been kicked out of their housing to commit crimes; there are many reasons why people are in parks. And we think that Beacon Hill Park is one of the jewels of our community, and we know that from staff reports that there has been damage done, we need to take the time, and we need the staff to feel safe to take the time to bring these parks back to its original state.
Jackie: I know that you have also been working with the director of parks recreation facilities. Are they happy with the plan to rehabilitate the park?
Charlayne: I think they're very proud of the work they do in the parks. And we see that every day. They want to, just like any employee with any occupation, take pride in their work, and they’re also are sad when they see that their work has been damaged and they want a safe environment to work in. I haven't asked them, but I'm sure they will report back on Thursday of what their thoughts are. But I would think that it is something that they could support. I think it goes back to nobody wants people camping in parks, and it all goes back to the bigger picture of solving homelessness.
Jackie: Does this motion include a plan for what may happen after the two-year period is up?
Charlayne: Once those two years and we'll be asking for a report back, we'll be following up in those two years with updates from staff. Oftentimes, we get quarterly reports from staff from each department explaining what is going on in the area. And so in two years, so we may find that it will be extended, or it may revert back to 7 PM to 7 AM camping area, the Supreme Court said the judges said, as long as there are people that have no place to go, we had to allow, even though there are conditions that we needed to allow some areas for people to camp. So we have many other parts in our community besides speaking apart. But as we said, right now, Beacon Hill Park needs to refresh and have a chance to breathe and get its conditions back.
Jackie: Are you expecting any opposition in council?
Charlayne: I'm not absolutely sure. I know that some of my colleagues may see that it will bring some hardship to some people. So, I don't know, you know, I think each of my colleagues will bring their thoughts at the table, and after those discussions, you never know whether some amendments will be made. At the time, we welcome comments from the public that communicate what they would like. Some emails were received already. Some say two years is enough for some say there are other parks in their neighbourhood, that they would like to be no camping. No individuals are saying there should be nobody in any of the parks. I think we all agree on many of those issues.Â
Jackie: Okay. How soon could this go through?
Charlayne: Usually, we'll take the motion on Thursday, and then usually take a week or two for it to get final approval at council. Between our committee and the whole council, we like to give a little bit of time for people to be able to provide some input. And then, I will take our staff and our solicitor to draft up the bylaw. So that takes at least a couple of weeks. So I would say anywhere from about a month or two.
Jackie: Counselor, thank you so much for joining us today.
Charlayne: Well, thank you for being interested. To any of your listeners, I think we all agree that we don't want people that are homeless. We don't want people who don’t support other mental health and addictions because it affects all of us. I think all of us have family members or friends that suffer from mental illness and addiction and, and some of them are still housed because of our supports. But some of them, unfortunately, don't have that same kind of support to end up in our parks.Â
Jackie: Actually, I would like to ask one more question. In Victoria, we have we obviously have an opioid crisis. We also are an extremely unaffordable city. And I feel like sometimes it's undersold the amount that impacts the people experiencing homelessness in our communities. Is that is that also something that's taken at a high priority?Â
Charlayne: Absolutely. We know that there are several reasons why people are homeless. And often, people will say, “Well, if you can't afford to live in a city, perhaps you shouldn’t be.” But of course, there are many jobs that we rely on. And we are working to make sure that people are given a living wage that they can be able to afford. But we are also working hard to try to provide more affordable housing, more rental housing. So, whether it's programs about addictions, whether it's policy or programs we have about building rental housing, making them affordable, whether it's suites, whether it is closing down some air, short-term rentals so that they can become more long term rentals or people. We're a university town, and your students need accommodations as well. So we want to make sure that there are all types of housing, for families, for students and for everyone that needs housing. So affordability is definitely an issue that we're working on.
Jackie: Thank you so much.
Charlayne: Thank you for once again being interested and take care.Â